Interview: We are determined to protect the idea of India, says Shashi Tharoor
June 4, 2014
Shashi Tharoor was one of the few senior Congress leaders to retain his Lok Sabha seat in Kerala’s Thiruvananthapuram, as the Bharatiya Janata Party swept to power with a strong majority. In this interview he looks back at what the Congress could have done better and what a Narendra Modi prime ministership means for India.
Q. Does Narendra Modi’s thumping victory represent the end of the Nehruvian socio-economic consensus?
A.The Nehruvian consensus, for all the criticism it endures today, was what at one time brought India together, facilitating our maturing as a democracy and accommodating so many diverse interests without letting any one group or section dominate our nascent nation state. Its economic aspects did, one could argue, develop certain flaws, notably those of the so-called “licence-permit-quote Raj”, and we saw a slow repeal of much of this in the 1980s itself under Rajiv Gandhi, until under the reforms initiated by Narasimha Rao and Dr Manmohan Singh, India truly marched into a confident new era of flourishing growth and socio-economic dynamism.
The astonishing victory of the BJP under Prime Minister Modi, however, is not merely about economics as much as about also communicating and tapping into the restless (and rightful) aspirations of our people. The Congress Party helped build on the economic structures of Nehru’s day while liberating them from excessive restrictions. But we remain committed to an inclusive idea of development, social justice and opportunities for the deprived and marginalized in our society — which, alas, are sometimes less marketable to a youthful electorate that wants change here and now.
Admittedly, we could have communicated our values and objectives better to voters, but Modi’s ability to convince our fellow citizens that he is their messiah of change, aided by a general anti-incumbency after 10 years of Congress rule, is what, I feel, led to the BJP’s historic victory and led some to argue that the Nehruvian consensus has unravelled. In my view, reports of its demise are exaggerated.
Q. In hindsight did the Congress fail to read the mood of the country: that growth rather than doles is what it wants?
A. As I mentioned, we did have a communication gap we could not fully bridge with our voters, but I do not think painting social legislation as a mere handing out of doles by the state is a fair assessment. Leaving aside the last two years, India witnessed record levels of growth under UPA governance, and our objective, which was supported by eminent economists, lawyers, and social activists with tremendous first hand experience, was to distribute the fruits of this growth more equitably.
And it is a fact, even if a superficial assessment of electoral results might suggest otherwise, that the lives and standards of living of most Indians have changed for the better in the last ten years. This was not because of doles but because of more generous and effective government. In fact it is exactly these doles, as you term them, that put more kids in school, and got more people jobs and their basic needs taken care of, so as to enable them to demand more from their government, which is their right, and which wave of aspirations the BJP rode so successfully.
In a way, they owe some credit to us for helping create this new aspirational India that has voted them to power! Growth is a step-by-step process and the UPA has definitely, I must stress, laid serious foundations here that go beyond parties and will last generations. What you describe as “doles” is in fact not mere handouts but empowerment – enabling those who have little, to meet their basic needs so they can stand on their own feet and aspire to better their lives.
Q. You had said that Mr Modi might turn India into a Hindu Pakistan. Do you still fear that? Does it worry you that the opposition is so weak in parliament?
A. From his first day as our Prime Minister, Narendra Modi seems to be making all the correct and inclusive statements about working for all Indians and focusing on development; Hindutva seems to have been placed on the back burner, as it largely was throughout the campaign. The history of the BJP and the Prime Minister’s own longstanding connections with the RSS are a cause for some apprehension, but as I have stated since his election and swearing in, any efforts by the Prime Minister and his government to boost India’s growth and development will receive our constructive support.
But we are equally determined to do our duty as a responsible opposition if we see any suggestions of divisive and sectarian intent – including promoting the Hindutva cause, which we believe will destroy the “idea of India” as a pluralist democracy. In other words, any attempts to create a Hindu Pakistan, even if by junior members of his team or by his fellow-travellers, will be robustly opposed. We are determined to protect the idea of India, which the Congress party has always staunchly stood for over the years.
Q. In most democracies the convention is that if the party loses badly, the leader resigns, and the party chooses a new leader. Why did the Congress not accept the resignation of its leaders?
A. There seems to be too much premium placed on the idea of resignation in our discourse, which I frankly think is misguided and unwise. Every party goes through ups and downs, and the answer to this is not to have the entire leadership pack their bags and leave. You will remember that even the BJP lost the 2004 elections, while Mrs Gandhi led Congress to victory, but there was no question of asking BJP stalwarts like Advani-ji to resign.
Earlier, the Congress lost the elections of 1998 and 1999 under Mrs Sonia Gandhi, but her leadership took us to the victories of 2004 and 2009, which would not have been possible had we called for her resignation! We have complete faith in the leadership of our party and, together with younger supporters and fresh innovation, intend to restructure and rejuvenate our organization, from grassroots to the top. We have done this before, and we are perfectly capable of doing so again, and by the time of the next elections we will once again be a force to reckon with electorally.
Q. Do you believe that the Congress can’t perform and exist without a Gandhi leading it?
A. I have often said that India is like a thali of diverse cultures, groups, interests, identities and ideologies. The Congress party, because of its history and heritage, is in many ways a reflection of the same principle. It accommodates so many views and such vast varieties of supporters and members, from die-hard Marxists to free-market enthusiasts, for instance, that leadership would instinctively be difficult to give to any one of these many groups within the party.
We are all united by a common commitment to secularism and inclusive growth, where perhaps the BJP has Hindutva and more industrial development as its unifying principles.The Gandhi family, through its own legacy and history, and, I must add, proven track record of leadership, has successfully preserved this commitment to its founding ethos, alongside all the internal diversity of the party. Our worst defeats were when the family took a backseat from politics, and our resounding victories in recent years were under the leadership of Mrs Sonia Gandhi. We continue to repose our faith in that leadership.
Q. Do you see the Congress moving further left economically to distinguish itself from the BJP? Would that not be counterproductive considering that voters have rejected your socialist policies?
A. As I said before, the voters have not rejected our policies. In fact it is our policies that have enabled most of them to come out of a more basic existence into a position where they are better informed and more empowered to demand new and different things from their government. Our emphasis on socially inclusive growth is not simple “leftism”; we support growth and have led the liberalization that made growth possible, but we wish to see the benefits of that growth reaching the weakest and poorest sections of our society.
That commitment might not be easy to “sell” in a world where one has to brand and aggressively market every idea; but what we are doing cannot be reduced to the limited constraints of electoral branding! However, in the long run, I am certain that we will be remembered for not abandoning vast sections of society to hanker after a notion of growth that only favours a select few, at the cost of everybody else, who remain where they were. India must shine, but it must shine for everybody. This is an enduring policy of the Congress party, which will stand the test of time and be vindicated in the eyes of history.
Q. In Kerala the BJP performed better than in the previous elections, are you worried over the saffron party making inroads in the state?
A. The BJP’s vote share has gone up only marginally in Kerala, except in their strongest bastion of Thiruvananthapuram, which happens to be my constituency! So yes, I have reason to be worried. But I believe in the fair-mindedness and instinctive secularism of the Kerala voter. I believe the next test will come in the State Assembly elections of 2016, when I hope the Congress will reassert itself and ensure the BJP continues to fail to open its account in our state.
Q. The Aam Aadmi Party is eating up Congress votes in several states; Congress has been reduced to being the third force in Delhi and faced similar fate in Punjab. Your take on the AAP.
A. I believe the AAP’s problem was that it never graduated from being an effective protest movement to a credible party of governance. People who were disillusioned with the state of affairs and wanted a change voted for AAP, but while AAP could explain what they were against, they could never convincingly explain what they were for. Given the chance to rule in Delhi, they frittered away the opportunity in continued protests rather than in leveraging governmental power for the benefit of their voters. I think they will fare much worse the next time round, as voters return to parties that seek power because they know how to use it for the benefit of the people.
Q. You are one of the most tech-savvy members of the party, do you feel that Congress lost the cyber and tech war to team Modi, which ultimately influenced a large section of the youth and first time voters?
A. That is probably true, and I believe the Congress, which woke up to this need a bit late, will now make up for lost time.
Q. How do you think India’s relations with the world will move with other countries under PM Modi, particularly those who have been hostile to him after the Gujarat riots?
A. Mr Modi’s gesture in reaching out to India’s neighbours (and Mauritius) to attend his swearing-in will resonate well internationally. If he continues to reach out to those countries which, for good reasons, had misgivings about him after the horrors in Gujarat in 2002, he could well reassure them that the Modi they feared is not the Modi who now rules in New Delhi.
Q. Mr Modi spoke at length during his election rallies against China and Pakistan, do you think he will act the way he spoke? Will it be possible for Mr. Modi as the Prime Minister?
A. Mr Modi has proved us wrong by extending an invitation to Pakistan for his swearing-in ceremony. The gesture instantly disarmed many across the borders who had been alarmed by his combative rhetoric during the campaign, in which he had promised robust action on the borders, assailed Pakistani sponsorship of terrorism and warned some 30 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India that they should be prepared to pack their bags on the day of his victory.
His cordial welcome to, and subsequent bilateral meetings with, the leaders of these and other neighbouring countries, followed by an invitation to the Prime Minister of China to visit, must have reassured them that the Modi government would not feel obliged to live up to the belligerence of the Modi campaign.
Ultimately, we must remember that India has a certain standing in the world. Mr Modi is the custodian of that standing. If he lives up to the responsibilities that implies, there should be no cause for undue concern internationally.
June 4, 2014
Shashi Tharoor was one of the few senior Congress leaders to retain his Lok Sabha seat in Kerala’s Thiruvananthapuram, as the Bharatiya Janata Party swept to power with a strong majority. In this interview he looks back at what the Congress could have done better and what a Narendra Modi prime ministership means for India.
A.The Nehruvian consensus, for all the criticism it endures today, was what at one time brought India together, facilitating our maturing as a democracy and accommodating so many diverse interests without letting any one group or section dominate our nascent nation state. Its economic aspects did, one could argue, develop certain flaws, notably those of the so-called “licence-permit-quote Raj”, and we saw a slow repeal of much of this in the 1980s itself under Rajiv Gandhi, until under the reforms initiated by Narasimha Rao and Dr Manmohan Singh, India truly marched into a confident new era of flourishing growth and socio-economic dynamism.
The astonishing victory of the BJP under Prime Minister Modi, however, is not merely about economics as much as about also communicating and tapping into the restless (and rightful) aspirations of our people. The Congress Party helped build on the economic structures of Nehru’s day while liberating them from excessive restrictions. But we remain committed to an inclusive idea of development, social justice and opportunities for the deprived and marginalized in our society — which, alas, are sometimes less marketable to a youthful electorate that wants change here and now.
Admittedly, we could have communicated our values and objectives better to voters, but Modi’s ability to convince our fellow citizens that he is their messiah of change, aided by a general anti-incumbency after 10 years of Congress rule, is what, I feel, led to the BJP’s historic victory and led some to argue that the Nehruvian consensus has unravelled. In my view, reports of its demise are exaggerated.
Q. In hindsight did the Congress fail to read the mood of the country: that growth rather than doles is what it wants?
A. As I mentioned, we did have a communication gap we could not fully bridge with our voters, but I do not think painting social legislation as a mere handing out of doles by the state is a fair assessment. Leaving aside the last two years, India witnessed record levels of growth under UPA governance, and our objective, which was supported by eminent economists, lawyers, and social activists with tremendous first hand experience, was to distribute the fruits of this growth more equitably.
And it is a fact, even if a superficial assessment of electoral results might suggest otherwise, that the lives and standards of living of most Indians have changed for the better in the last ten years. This was not because of doles but because of more generous and effective government. In fact it is exactly these doles, as you term them, that put more kids in school, and got more people jobs and their basic needs taken care of, so as to enable them to demand more from their government, which is their right, and which wave of aspirations the BJP rode so successfully.
In a way, they owe some credit to us for helping create this new aspirational India that has voted them to power! Growth is a step-by-step process and the UPA has definitely, I must stress, laid serious foundations here that go beyond parties and will last generations. What you describe as “doles” is in fact not mere handouts but empowerment – enabling those who have little, to meet their basic needs so they can stand on their own feet and aspire to better their lives.
Q. You had said that Mr Modi might turn India into a Hindu Pakistan. Do you still fear that? Does it worry you that the opposition is so weak in parliament?
A. From his first day as our Prime Minister, Narendra Modi seems to be making all the correct and inclusive statements about working for all Indians and focusing on development; Hindutva seems to have been placed on the back burner, as it largely was throughout the campaign. The history of the BJP and the Prime Minister’s own longstanding connections with the RSS are a cause for some apprehension, but as I have stated since his election and swearing in, any efforts by the Prime Minister and his government to boost India’s growth and development will receive our constructive support.
But we are equally determined to do our duty as a responsible opposition if we see any suggestions of divisive and sectarian intent – including promoting the Hindutva cause, which we believe will destroy the “idea of India” as a pluralist democracy. In other words, any attempts to create a Hindu Pakistan, even if by junior members of his team or by his fellow-travellers, will be robustly opposed. We are determined to protect the idea of India, which the Congress party has always staunchly stood for over the years.
Q. In most democracies the convention is that if the party loses badly, the leader resigns, and the party chooses a new leader. Why did the Congress not accept the resignation of its leaders?
A. There seems to be too much premium placed on the idea of resignation in our discourse, which I frankly think is misguided and unwise. Every party goes through ups and downs, and the answer to this is not to have the entire leadership pack their bags and leave. You will remember that even the BJP lost the 2004 elections, while Mrs Gandhi led Congress to victory, but there was no question of asking BJP stalwarts like Advani-ji to resign.
Earlier, the Congress lost the elections of 1998 and 1999 under Mrs Sonia Gandhi, but her leadership took us to the victories of 2004 and 2009, which would not have been possible had we called for her resignation! We have complete faith in the leadership of our party and, together with younger supporters and fresh innovation, intend to restructure and rejuvenate our organization, from grassroots to the top. We have done this before, and we are perfectly capable of doing so again, and by the time of the next elections we will once again be a force to reckon with electorally.
A. I have often said that India is like a thali of diverse cultures, groups, interests, identities and ideologies. The Congress party, because of its history and heritage, is in many ways a reflection of the same principle. It accommodates so many views and such vast varieties of supporters and members, from die-hard Marxists to free-market enthusiasts, for instance, that leadership would instinctively be difficult to give to any one of these many groups within the party.
We are all united by a common commitment to secularism and inclusive growth, where perhaps the BJP has Hindutva and more industrial development as its unifying principles.The Gandhi family, through its own legacy and history, and, I must add, proven track record of leadership, has successfully preserved this commitment to its founding ethos, alongside all the internal diversity of the party. Our worst defeats were when the family took a backseat from politics, and our resounding victories in recent years were under the leadership of Mrs Sonia Gandhi. We continue to repose our faith in that leadership.
Q. Do you see the Congress moving further left economically to distinguish itself from the BJP? Would that not be counterproductive considering that voters have rejected your socialist policies?
A. As I said before, the voters have not rejected our policies. In fact it is our policies that have enabled most of them to come out of a more basic existence into a position where they are better informed and more empowered to demand new and different things from their government. Our emphasis on socially inclusive growth is not simple “leftism”; we support growth and have led the liberalization that made growth possible, but we wish to see the benefits of that growth reaching the weakest and poorest sections of our society.
That commitment might not be easy to “sell” in a world where one has to brand and aggressively market every idea; but what we are doing cannot be reduced to the limited constraints of electoral branding! However, in the long run, I am certain that we will be remembered for not abandoning vast sections of society to hanker after a notion of growth that only favours a select few, at the cost of everybody else, who remain where they were. India must shine, but it must shine for everybody. This is an enduring policy of the Congress party, which will stand the test of time and be vindicated in the eyes of history.
Q. In Kerala the BJP performed better than in the previous elections, are you worried over the saffron party making inroads in the state?
A. The BJP’s vote share has gone up only marginally in Kerala, except in their strongest bastion of Thiruvananthapuram, which happens to be my constituency! So yes, I have reason to be worried. But I believe in the fair-mindedness and instinctive secularism of the Kerala voter. I believe the next test will come in the State Assembly elections of 2016, when I hope the Congress will reassert itself and ensure the BJP continues to fail to open its account in our state.
Q. The Aam Aadmi Party is eating up Congress votes in several states; Congress has been reduced to being the third force in Delhi and faced similar fate in Punjab. Your take on the AAP.
A. I believe the AAP’s problem was that it never graduated from being an effective protest movement to a credible party of governance. People who were disillusioned with the state of affairs and wanted a change voted for AAP, but while AAP could explain what they were against, they could never convincingly explain what they were for. Given the chance to rule in Delhi, they frittered away the opportunity in continued protests rather than in leveraging governmental power for the benefit of their voters. I think they will fare much worse the next time round, as voters return to parties that seek power because they know how to use it for the benefit of the people.
Q. You are one of the most tech-savvy members of the party, do you feel that Congress lost the cyber and tech war to team Modi, which ultimately influenced a large section of the youth and first time voters?
A. That is probably true, and I believe the Congress, which woke up to this need a bit late, will now make up for lost time.
A. Mr Modi’s gesture in reaching out to India’s neighbours (and Mauritius) to attend his swearing-in will resonate well internationally. If he continues to reach out to those countries which, for good reasons, had misgivings about him after the horrors in Gujarat in 2002, he could well reassure them that the Modi they feared is not the Modi who now rules in New Delhi.
Q. Mr Modi spoke at length during his election rallies against China and Pakistan, do you think he will act the way he spoke? Will it be possible for Mr. Modi as the Prime Minister?
A. Mr Modi has proved us wrong by extending an invitation to Pakistan for his swearing-in ceremony. The gesture instantly disarmed many across the borders who had been alarmed by his combative rhetoric during the campaign, in which he had promised robust action on the borders, assailed Pakistani sponsorship of terrorism and warned some 30 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India that they should be prepared to pack their bags on the day of his victory.
His cordial welcome to, and subsequent bilateral meetings with, the leaders of these and other neighbouring countries, followed by an invitation to the Prime Minister of China to visit, must have reassured them that the Modi government would not feel obliged to live up to the belligerence of the Modi campaign.
Ultimately, we must remember that India has a certain standing in the world. Mr Modi is the custodian of that standing. If he lives up to the responsibilities that implies, there should be no cause for undue concern internationally.
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This story was first published in www.thepoliticalindian.com on June 4, 2014
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